Barbara Lee Warns If We Don't Fight Back Harder We Won't Even Recognize This Country

“People will wake up one day if we don't fight back harder and find out where are we, they won't even recognize this country anymore,” Mayor Barbara Lee told Joy Ann Reid.

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“People will wake up one day if we don't fight back harder and find out where are we, they won't even recognize this country anymore,” Mayor Barbara Lee told Joy Ann Reid.

Most people don't recognize the signs of democracy being dismantled until it's too late, Lee warned. People need to understand what authoritarianism looks like so they can act before finding themselves in a country they don't recognize, with "barbed wire everywhere" and "people in jail and internment camps."

The Mayor of Oakland also gave advice for how to protest safely and effectively, saying to fight back, but do it smartly. She warned not to give authorities the excuse they want to escalate. The goal is sustained resistance, not actions that backfire and harm the people you're trying to protect.

Listen here:

Joy Ann Reid: Do you believe that politics can stop autocracy, because it feels like politics is too slow to stop autocracy.

Mayor Barbara Lee: I think it's gonna be a critical moment where, all hell’s gonna break loose and then stop. And this is one time when you wonder about the military, how they are going to step in, because this can't go on like this.

Reid: That's that brings me to a very immediate issue, which is this militarization sort of state police, militaristic State Police. They're operating in Los Angeles right now. We're seeing what they're doing. They're going in and provoking protests by raiding a Home Depot and dragging people out and saying, Well, we're taking you away where ICE is taking you. And they took you know, they've arrested something that 44 people in Los Angeles, because when ICE shows up, people protest. That's predictable. But what I've noticed is that we were driving around, LA pretty much for the last three days. There's nothing going on in LA, other than where ICE is, and they're only in a small number of places. Most parts of LA are perfectly peaceful, and yet you're having Tom Holman and Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth, a guy from Fox threatening to essentially invade California, to send in the Marines and the National Guard. That is a dangerous escalation,

Lee: Very dangerous, and this is where it's coming.

Cross talk: We're in Oakland, another in Oakland, another Black woman run city and Sanctuary, a sanctuary immigrant community.

Lee: And we're going to resist, and it's got to be appropriate so we don't get the National Guard coming in, you know? So we'll manage.

Reid: How to stop the federal government from sending federal agents into a sanctuary city and taking people,

Lee: Yeah, it's very hard to stop them from doing that. We have to lawyer up first of all, and we have to have everybody in the community circling our immigrant community, making sure that we provide that circle of protection and make sure the police know what they're doing and not cooperating.

And we have to fight hard, but not allow the fight to be such that people get hurt or get arrested, you know.

So we have to be very strategic with that, and it's very hard.

But what this moment, and I'm telling you, most people don't understand the signs of the dismantling of democracy. People will wake up one day if we don't fight back harder and find out where are we, they won't even recognize this country anymore. They'll see barbed wire everywhere. Okay? They'll see people in jail and internment camps. I mean, this is the moment.

And so educating people about what the signs of authoritarianism is, because every people are just struggling to survive.

Reid: Yeah, and I don't know, and I think, because you come from an organizer background, when I see the protests, you know, against it? It, to me, it is the most predictable thing ever. When ICE is taking people, people get very angry. They get into the streets. They throw rocks, they do the things. What would you advise people to do if they are they want to resist this state police that are coming in and taking people? How should they do it in a way that doesn't give Trump the excuse to come in to Oakland and do what he's trying to do in LA.

Lee: You know, we need to have some safe spaces, which we're encouraging people to find, and we're helping for people to be able to voice their First Amendment rights and to be able to probably, I mean, that's the essence of our democracy.

But we also have to make sure people understand the perils and the dangers of certain locations, for example, and make sure people know that is not the most safe location to do this. Maybe we should do it here, there or yonder, also making sure that our vulnerable, like children and these sensitive spaces, are protected. And we have to, because in sanctuary cities, you know you can't go to church supposedly, federal law is not —

Sanctuary City

Reid: Can you explain what a sanctuary city is for people?

Lee: It's a city that has just said we're going to protect immigrants from the federal government and from deportation, because we have, we believe that they have a right to be here and to work, and so we're not going to allow the police to cooperate with ICE.

So basically, California is a sanctuary state. Is the same.

Reid: So that means that when people are saying police are arresting people, it's not police. It's fed, it's feds. It's ICE.

Lee: It's Donald Trump's police. It's his police. Yeah, the thing that we can't give them the we can't give this to them, and that's why I'm saying we have to be very, very strategic, yeah, and we have to be able to protest in places and raise our voices and let them know where what we feel, and help our immigrant communities while not provoking what they want us to do. That's what they want us to do, provoke.

Attack on Black People’s Freedom

Reid: And you know, I also take note of the fact that you already knew the elected mayor of Oakland. And Black mayors are under particular threat from this regime. I can't argue to call them an administration, because they behave like a regime. But you know, you think about the Mayor Lumumba in Jackson, Mississippi. You think about Karen Bass being constantly badgered and attacked on Trump and on Elon Musk's social media, and trying to blame her, as if she started the fires and Palisades, which had nothing to do with her, and she was taking care of it, and some of it's in her part of the city with where she has leadership responsibility, you name it.

If there's a Black mayor, I mean calling the Mayor of Baltimore the DEI mayor, yeah, I love the way he flipped and he said, you know when he's a ‘duly elected incumbent’, which I love that.

But there is a particular focus on Black mayors, yeah, how do you stay out of that fire?

Lee: Yeah, there's a focus on Black people. I mean, when you look at and then Black Mayor, of course, because we're the closest to Black people.

Reid: And most of Black Americans who live in urban environments actually live under Black mayor. Atlanta. You know, you think about New York, for what it's worth.

Lee: This is about the other. It's about it's really an attempt to marginalize Black people and not allow us our total free, our freedom and our justice in this country.

—END interview—

Trump’s attack on Black communities and leaders is a warning of what he plans to do to everyone, and it’s also an assault on the ideals and most aspirational values of the United States of America. While Black people have been systemically repressed in this country, we have tried to move toward justice, rather than away from it.

But Donald Trump is changing that. He is charging toward internment camps, jails, and injustice. It’s hardly just Trump, either. Texas Republicans have locked a Black woman state lawmaker in the chamber. The Republican Party is an authoritarian regime that does not value liberty, freedom, or the principles upon which this country was founded.

What Trump and Republicans are doing to immigrants and Black people right now is the wake-up call. This is our chance to make the case, to educate others, and to stand up for our neighbors and our values.

We must be proactive rather than reactive, including fighting the autocratic assault before our democracy is completely dismantled.

Something you can do from home right now: Make 5 calls.

Do you agree with Mayor Lee about the moment we are in? Share your thoughts in the comments below.